Mysterys, Ideas ,Thoughts, and Questions


1850 Union Hartly township Moses staying with his Grandma and Grandpa




1860 census of Oliver twp, P. O. McVeytown, Mifflin Co. image or pg 276
Also below is Nancy Sellers Elisabeth Shively's Sister
Thank You Pam For Finding this




1870 census Mifflin Pa
Shively Moses age 35 (born 1835)
Shively Mary Age 12
1870 census Derry twp Lewistown Pa

This Puts Elisabeth Shively With  Christiana Wentle And Wilson Wentle (thanks again Pam)

May have found Charles..1 county over Menno township 1870 census





1880 census Mifflin Pa

Shively Moses age 54 (should be 45)
Shively Elizabeth age ?
Shively Mary 22
They had 5 Children - Charles Born 11/19/1854
Scott - Born 07/30/1856
Mary (Nannie) Born 09/14/1859 Died 05/08/1882
Elizabeth Shively was born 1832-1833 she is listed as being 66 in 1900 census
Rachel Eliza Born 08/03/1886 Elizabeth would be 52
Nana Born 05/06/1870 Elizabeth would be 56
The above Dates are from the Family Bible of
Elizbeth Wentle.

http://www.geocities.com/PJM1877/index.html
The following names appear on the 1877 map of
Oliver Township, Mifflin County, Pennsylvania

Shively, M


feedback

from Glenda:    "bgniccum@iwvisp.com"
Judy Shively Wagner from Mifflinburg, PA has a Moses Shively in her book.  He is the eldest son of Elizabeth Shively who married John Valentine.  He is documented in the 1850 Census for Hartley Twp. Union Co., PA.  Moses is evidently staying with his grandparents (or is at least in their home at the time of the census).  John Shivley 73; Elizabeth 68; Susan 20; Moses 16.
 
She also has a statement about Moses that says:  "He is believed to have gone to Oliver Twp. Mifflin Co. PA.
Are you sure your Moses was born in Germany?  The descendants listed in Judy's book are all born in America...the first ancestors to come over came around 1722.
 

Thanks to Glenda I went to
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9517/Shively/aqwg29.htm#14742
where i found this information
865. Moses SHIVELY 1, 2 (Elizabeth SHIVELY , John SHIVELY , Christian SHIVELY , Christen , Christian , Durs ) was born about 1830 in , , Pennsylvania.
  • Moses was the eldest son. He was enumerated 1 with his wife and eldest son 1880 in Oliver, Mifflin, Pennsylvania.
  • Moses married Elisabeth (Shively)* 1. Elisabeth was born about 1839 in , , Pennsylvania.

    865. Moses SHIVELY

    1Family History Resource File, 1880 United States Census and National Index (Salt Lake: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 2000), Oliver, Mifflin, Pennsylvania, pg. 164A, Family History Library, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150  USA. "Name: Moses Shively, race: W, sex: M, age: 50, b: <1830> in Pennsylvania, relationship: husband (self), occupation: Laborer, father b: PA; mother b: PA, married; Name: Elisabeth Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 41, b: <1839> in Pennsylvania, relationship: wife, occupation: House Keeper, father b: PA; mother b: PA;  Name: Mary Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 22, b: <1858> in Pennsylvania, relationship: Dau, single." National Archive T9-1156 or Family History Library #1255156.

    2Arthur Geiger Black, comp., Descendants of Christian Shively of Warwick Twp., Lancaster Co. and later York Twp., York Co., Penna. (Kansas City, MO: Arthur G. Black 1941), pg. 28, Daughters of the American Revolution Library, Washington, D.C., LC microfilm: 86/5260. Photocopy in possession of MDGeorgeson.


    Elisabeth (Shively)*

    1Family History Resource File, 1880 United States Census and National Index (Salt Lake: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 2000), Oliver, Mifflin, Pennsylvania, pg. 164A, Family History Library, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150  USA. "Name: Moses Shively, race: W, sex: M, age: 50, b: <1830> in Pennsylvania, relationship: husband (self), occupation: Laborer, father b: PA; mother b: PA, married; Name: Elisabeth Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 41, b: <1839> in Pennsylvania, relationship: wife, occupation: House Keeper, father b: PA; mother b: PA;  Name: Mary Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 22, b: <1858> in Pennsylvania, relationship: Dau, single." National Archive T9-1156 or Family History Library #1255156.

    1940. Mary SHIVELY

    1Family History Resource File, 1880 United States Census and National Index (Salt Lake: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 2000), Oliver, Mifflin, Pennsylvania, pg. 164A, Family History Library, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, UT 84150  USA. "Name: Moses Shively, race: W, sex: M, age: 50, b: <1830> in Pennsylvania, relationship: husband (self), occupation: Laborer, father b: PA; mother b: PA, married; Name: Elisabeth Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 41, b: <1839> in Pennsylvania, relationship: wife, occupation: House Keeper, father b: PA; mother b: PA;  Name: Mary Shively, race: W, sex: F, age: 22, b: <1858> in Pennsylvania, relationship: Dau, single." National Archive T9-1156 or Family History Library #1255156.

    I recieved this from Glenda thank you!!
    Alot of this letter has been disproven And raises more Questions then answers
    But it does have a few clues in it!



    1900 Pensylvania census page 31 Mifflin ,granville township

    Here Elisabeth states she had 6 Children and 4 were living in 1900
    Charles,Scott,And Mary and one other Could it be Rachel Eliza?
    Was Rachel Eliza the Eliza from Uta (utah) who had two children a boy and a girl

    1870 mifflin, granville



    1880 Granville township shows Nancy Sellers as being Widowed

    Below map is from 1877 Map of Granville township
     Mrs Sellers this leads me to believe that Edward Died between 1870 and 1876


    Moses lived well Beyond 1880 Here is Moses living with His Daughter Mary Whom from earlier census reports was either slow or mildly retarded
    Mifflin Oliver 1900 page 6. (Moses frequently lied on his census forms he was not born in 1803)

    In the 1900 Mifflin Granville Elisabeth Shively was listed as Widowed  Obviously she wasn't.
    Was she divorced?


    1910 Mifflin Oliver Mary Shively living/working with or for the Stine's

    1920 Mifflin Oliver Mary Still living with the Stines looks like Mary had a hard time keeping her age straight also.

    Yet Another Mystery

    Winkle or Wentle Or Both(Did it change between 1840-50's ?)
    Could Elisabeth and Nancy and Eliza's last name Be Winkle and not Wentle???


    Also if Winkle/Wentle is a Germanic name It may have been  pronounced with a V instead of a W
    Vinkle or Ventle
    1850 U.S. Census • Pennsylvania • Mifflin • Oliver
    Borough Mcveytown
    Eliza Winkle 10  attended school  in the last year page # 1 ( in the household of William Campbell laborer)
    Eliza's birthdate is unknown last name Probably Kelley If this is the Eliza (wentle) winkle
    She would be born in 1840 since the other birthdates match what we know 1840 sounds reasonable.
    Nancy Winkle 14 attended school  in the last year page # 2 (in the household of John Hardy merchant)
    Nancy Wentle is listed as being born in 1836 in 1900 census
    Elizabeth Winkle 17  page # 3 ( household of James Cooper merchant)
    Elisabeth Wentle is listed as being born in 1833 in 1900 census


    Here is the Reply that Ask's  this Question  Thank you Melody!!!

    Author: Melody C Tribou Date: 22 Dec 2003 2:30 PM GMT
      Classification: Query
      In Reply to: Re: looking for info on Wilson Wentle/Maggie Dumm new e-mail address  by:  Pamela Smith
    Post Reply | Mark Unread | Report Abuse  Print Message
    I'm not sure if I can help or not----I'm sending what I've found which may give you other places to search, they may have been sisters or cousins (?), if you find anything to connect please let me know.
    1. as far as I can tell Wilson may have been an only child (unlikely I know) I have the page of the family Bible which list Mrs Cristian Wentle (her name unknown otherwise) birth 10 May 1801Colebrook Furnace Dulphin Co PA died 8 Dec 1887 and his birth as 8 Feb 1845 McVeytown Mifflin CO PA died Sept 30 no year given (1905 by newspaper reports----hit by train Milford Twp Mifflin Co PA) (1900 census for Fermanagh Twp Mifflin Co PA has his father born Germany)
    2. Lutheran cemetery West Fourth Street Lewistown PA has: Christiana Wentle 1801-1889, Ella Wentle 1839-1918, Charles Wentle 1871-1901.
    3. I found Nancy Jane Wentle birth abt 1820 Mifflin Co PA death 1909 husband Edward Sellers marriage abt 1841 Mifflin Co PA (info at www.familysearch.org)
    4. 1850 census Oliver Twp Mifflin Co PA (lots of spellings changed around this time) has:
    Christiana Winkle 50 and Wilson 5 in the household of R D Jacobs farmer
    Nancy Winkle 14 in the household of John Hardy merchant
    Elizabeth Winkle 17 household of James Cooper merchant
    also has Eliza Winkle 10 in the household of William Campbell laborer
    my "guess" is husband may have died and unable to support family they were placed with other families to work for room and board. The ages are close if you don't have exact birth dates but I have no proof these are the same people
    Don't know if this is anything you didn't have but it is all I've been able to find-----Hope this helps---happy hunting,
    Melody

    What I do know is the Dates listed on  www.Familysearch.org  about Edward and Nancy Sellers is Wrong From 1900 Census Nancy was born in 1836 And Edward was born between 1824 and 1830
    And Edward died between 1870 and 1880


    (to date this is the only Elisabeth Wentle I have found in a census)

    Individuals of Interest May be related or Not


    1850  philadelphia penn census
    Elisabeth New York
    Catherine New  York
    Stephen Penn
    Caroline Penn


    On the death certificate for Elizabeth Shively the informant is listed as Eliza Kelley
    from 1870 mifflin granville  could this be the eliza Kelley?